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My own wrangling with defeatism - A little less than a happy high
komos
komos
My own wrangling with defeatism

Thank you, America. Thank you in your goat heads.
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Comments
From: uruz Date: November 3rd, 2004 08:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, four more years of bullshit, here we come!
komos From: komos Date: November 3rd, 2004 11:13 am (UTC) (Link)
It doesn't even matter any more.

Eventually, someone will wake up to the fact that we've been shitting where we eat for the better part of fifty years. In the meantime, we get to listen to otherwise intelligent people belaboring the myth that we are hated because of who we are and not what we do.
(Deleted comment)
komos From: komos Date: November 3rd, 2004 11:07 am (UTC) (Link)
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps Dubya's second term will not have effects that color the next 20-30 years of my life. I don't know how much more divided America can be, but I've a sense that we're going to find out.

We're to be veterans of the culture wars.
From: missmelysse Date: November 3rd, 2004 10:25 am (UTC) (Link)
I stayed up til three this morning watching CNN. Not that my wakefulness helped anything, but, vigils are meant for the person keeping them, I guess, as much as we like to think otherwise.

I'm kind of wishing I'd let Fuzzy take the London job, now.

I'm trying to decide if it's worth it to go join local groups who will now be rallying to protect the rights we have left.
komos From: komos Date: November 3rd, 2004 10:57 am (UTC) (Link)
Based on what I've seen in the aftermath, it appears that my prediction that the election would be decided by the "morality" and "values" (read "anti-abortion" and "anti-ssm") voter was spot on.

What's frustrating is that now these voters are coming forward and blaming the democrats for not giving them a second choice because of the party's stance on these two issues. They hold that discourse on any other issue is not possible until these two issues are conceded. Single-issue voters are in the process of returning us to the 1950s, and are claiming that anyone who opposes them is ignorant and hopelessly out of touch.

Fighting for what rights are left in an environment where you are expected to concede those rights before any discussion is possible may not be a viable strategy.

But like I said, I'm feeling a bit defeatist today.
From: missmelysse Date: November 3rd, 2004 11:41 am (UTC) (Link)
Fighting for what rights are left in an environment where you are expected to concede those rights before any discussion is possible may not be a viable strategy.

That's valid.
But I'd still rather do *something* for change than sit around and feel horrible.
komos From: komos Date: November 3rd, 2004 12:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
Careful, you might get labeled a terr'ist.
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 3rd, 2004 02:07 pm (UTC) (Link)

act locally!

I am a strong proponent that being politically active locally is the best way to go. You can have a definite impact on your own life. In the greater picture if you can show your political agenda can work on a local level you can push the idea to working on a greater level like statewide. Then who knows how it would affect the greater majority. Perhaps die Weldt!
Ahem,
My example would be the Libertarians want to take over a state and run it with their agenda. If it succeeded then they could be a viable party to govern the nation.
But I'm a dirty States-rights-anti-federalist that wants to keep government out of my wallet and out of my social life.
komos From: komos Date: November 4th, 2004 09:06 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm probably missing something

Wouldn't most local positions be of the sort that a Libertarian would want to eliminate anyway? I mean, if one believes that education should not be public, he would be hard pressed to function on the local school board as anything except a spoiler. It seems self-defeating since the ultimate goal seems to be the elimination of one's own position of power.
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 4th, 2004 01:24 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I'm probably missing something

See I am not a hard line Liberatarian. I think that schooling should be run better.

Eliminating the position of power is not a bad idea. The proffessional politician is the worst thing I can think of, it was supposed to be a priviledge to serve and that you served long enough to do your part.
komos From: komos Date: November 4th, 2004 02:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
Still, some ideas behind local action as an agent of chance are to leverage change by developing contacts, gaining experience, and potentially running for higher office. In order to do so one must either support or become a professional politician.

I guess this is where the disconnect is for me. The courses of action seem to be self-defeating on the one hand, or playing into a system to which one is openly antagonistic on the other.
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 4th, 2004 03:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh my ideas are pure fantasy.

(sings) Life is but a fantasy, Life is but a fantasy! LIFE!
/singing
komos From: komos Date: November 5th, 2004 06:04 am (UTC) (Link)

Some fantasies can be fulfilled

The question remains - can you make the ideas, fantasies or no, work?
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 5th, 2004 10:41 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Some fantasies can be fulfilled

I see the beginnings of a new master plan to rule the world, Pinky!

*insert evil laugh here*
komos From: komos Date: November 5th, 2004 11:20 am (UTC) (Link)
Now that's what I'm talking about!

Will into action, my friend. Will into action.
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 5th, 2004 11:57 am (UTC) (Link)

Important topics

Do world tyrants get sex?
komos From: komos Date: November 5th, 2004 12:09 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Important topics

I thought world tyrants got pretty much whatever they wanted?

Besides, if you're really looking for this to be a state ruled by ninja logic, you must have several gratuitous scenes involving really hot naked assassins who try to do you in after having sex with you. (And yes, it's always after sex.)
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 5th, 2004 02:40 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Important topics

AWESOME!
dirtymikesell From: dirtymikesell Date: November 3rd, 2004 02:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hey look there's more to America than the left coasts! We like to ignore them as our retarded banjo-playing cousins but look they spoke and do represent a populous majority. I need to write you more so we can discuss issues. I have better tools now with my training in critical thinking. Bwahahaha. I'll start using Fuzzy Ninja Logic on your Laser Guided political views.
komos From: komos Date: November 4th, 2004 04:28 am (UTC) (Link)
Hey look there's more to America than the left coasts!

I'm fully aware of that. I'm also aware that many in middle America look upon anyone from the northeast as an over-educated elitist snob, and anyone from the left coast as an herb-smoking freak.

Stereotypes suck. Still, when you are talking about large groups of people, generalizations are often necessary to have any kind of meaningful discussion. For instance, when discussing the 1 in 5 polled on exit who stated that "morality" was their single most important issue, it's probably safe to say that they are representative of the 4 million fundamentalist Christians that Karl Rove promised to mobilize after the last election. Considering that the "majority" numbered only about 3.5 million more than the "minority," I'm not sure that this was so much a victory of the populist majority as a demonstration electoral strategy to garner votes from the right combination of special interests.

Mobilization of single-issue voters does not a mandate make. Still, I'm no expert, and I'm sure someone else (someone with a power bowtie, perhaps) will say something different.
apeyanne From: apeyanne Date: November 3rd, 2004 07:47 pm (UTC) (Link)

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

...Damn Ohio. Damn them all to fucking hell.

(I'll not ever live in the midwest again.)


Don't worry, I'm feeling defeatist, too.
I'm seriously considering moving to Canada or the UK. Or Mars.
komos From: komos Date: November 4th, 2004 12:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

To be honest, I'm not going to blame any particular state for its selection of presidential electors. As I think I've hinted at and others have outright said, it's really much more complex than that.

What I will take Ohioans to task for is voting overwhelmingly for a ballot initiative driven by fear and bigotry. I'm guessing that there are probably a fair number of thoughtful and well-informed voters in that state. Their voice was pretty well drowned out.
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