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"...the worst enemies of Athens are not those who, like you, have… - A little less than a happy high
komos
komos
"...the worst enemies of Athens are not those who, like you, have only harmed her in war, but those who have forced her friends to turn against her. The Athens I love is not the one which is wronging me now, but that one in which I used to have secure enjoyment of my rights as a citizen. That country that I am attacking does not seem to be mine any longer; it is rather that I am trying to recover a country that has ceased to be mine. And the man who really loves his country is not the one who refuses to attack it when he has been unjustly driven from it, but the man whose desire for it is so strong that he will shrink from nothing in his efforts to get back there again."

-Alcibiades addressing the Spartan Assembly,
in Thucydides' History of the Peloponnesian War
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(Deleted comment)
komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 06:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
There is a great deal about America that I love. The direction that our society seems to be moving in sickens me to the point of declaring that the Grand Experiment is in danger of failing.

You'll forgive me for being pessimistic, of course...
(Deleted comment)
komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 06:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
Sometimes I wonder if I'm not already "that guy." Then I realize that I'm expected to feel marginalized because I don't believe that the 1950s were the height of American civilization, and perhaps even because I ask questions.

Questions bad.
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komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 07:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
There are going to be problems with any period I point to, and part of me is tempted to point to some time 1775... It's funny, but as I'm thinking about this, I'm thinking about times when we came further to define just what it meant to be American and how those new definitions played out in the aftermath. I tend to look at the 1950's as a time when such a redefinition occurred, but it was out of phase and perhaps even forced.
(Deleted comment)
komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 07:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
some time prior to 1775...
From: ulf_rulz Date: March 25th, 2005 12:53 am (UTC) (Link)
I gave up after the second and very clear example of outright election theft.

We will *never* recover 'democracy,' from the electronic voting machines... never mind the media control or the complete vapidity of the average American... though I think it is of little consequence: impending economic collapse coupled with a greater Mideast War will be enough to drive America into full-blown fascism. Not that we don't have far to go, at least according to Mussolini.

The Grand Experiment? Completely over, as far as I'm concerned.

Nice quote, btw. Those Ancient Greeks sure know how to wax philosophic when it comes to war...
komos From: komos Date: March 25th, 2005 02:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's frightening that there are so many parallels that can be drawn between events chronicled by Thucydides and our contemporary troubles. Ultimately, humanity hasn't changed all that much... save for our "statesmen" being much poorer orators.
cosmicserpent From: cosmicserpent Date: March 22nd, 2005 03:40 pm (UTC) (Link)
Totally off-topic, but I just thought you needed to know about the wonder that is Hogzilla (This will be Godzilla's new villian or my faith in film has failed).
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starflow From: starflow Date: March 22nd, 2005 04:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
Suey, whaddya see?
The greatest hog in history!
komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 05:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
Man, I can't believe they just buried him. The delicious pork products that could have been harvested from his carcass could have fed a small island nation for at least a season.

Did everyone get this special announcement, or am I amongst the privileged few?
cosmicserpent From: cosmicserpent Date: March 22nd, 2005 06:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
You are the privileged one. It's because of your Godzilla love...
komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 06:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
He was a mighty beast. Luckily, the anger didn't grip him when he died.
(Deleted comment)
komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 05:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Going into the current morass, someone I was "speaking" to claimed that anything that happened prior to 1992 had no real relevance and could in no way help us to understand what drove this war.

Never let it be said that Americans are simply ignorant. Far too many are willfully ignorant.
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komos From: komos Date: March 22nd, 2005 06:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
Sometimes I wish I had the power to make people aware just for a brief moment. Not so long that they change, just long enough to have a glimpse of just how very little they actually know.
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