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In the silence and darkness - A little less than a happy high — LiveJournal
In the silence and darkness
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komos From: komos Date: April 30th, 2002 07:10 am (UTC) (Link)

This is what he pays me for

I have no idea. Between the "people should not continue rocking past 40" assessment and his insistence that she looks "ancient and worn out," I was quite baffled. She'll be turning 36 in August, and while her new look is striking and severe, I think she has as much appeal she did when when Garbage was released in 1995.

I guess it could be argued that someone who's popular career began when she was 29 is old when held to the standards of the cult of youth and compared to the typical 22-23 y.o. musicians who flood the airwaves with their incredible sameness.

Ach, but I'm turning into a bitter old man... Get off my lawn, ya damn kids!
khourytamarisk From: khourytamarisk Date: April 30th, 2002 07:41 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: This is what he pays me for

Not to bring up the nasty subject of age, but I'm younger than both you and Shelby and I still don't think that Shirley Manson is old. Hell, my mom's going to be 60 this year and I don't think she's old either.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. Age isn't a number, it's a physical & emotional state of being.

Though I did like her with the long-ish red hair more than the white-blonde crop she's got now.... Eh, she's still cool.
komos From: komos Date: April 30th, 2002 08:13 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: This is what he pays me for

During my protests last night, Shelby asked, "Have you SEEN her lately?"

"Well, yeah... she signed my cd on Saturday."

I think age is a number. It should be representative of experience and (hopefully), maturity. My problem lies in the cultural assumptions around being washed up if you've hit a certain age... "You must be married by X." "If you haven't found a career by Y, you're hopeless." "There's no way you can do [that] anymore because you're Z." These cutoff age assumptions have been more damaging to our collective psyches than any 70y.o. who insists on pursuing his love of skydiving.

I liked Shirley's long-ish red, too. ;)
khourytamarisk From: khourytamarisk Date: April 30th, 2002 09:16 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: This is what he pays me for

My problem lies in the cultural assumptions around being washed up if you've hit a certain age...

I agree completely....which is why I feel age isn't just a number. When I was in high school I was hardly ever carded for cigarrettes, and people assumed that I was in my twenties when I was 16. I was how I carried myself, and the simple fact that I didn't act like the majority of high school females.

I was older then than I am now. I, now, think I act a bit closer to my actual age. My maturity level hasn't suffered because of this, but I find myself not feeling as dragged down as I used to feel. I feel like more options are open to me now than ever before, and, I think, that has to do with feeling more my actual age instead of older, which is the way I felt when I was a teenager.

I don't know. Maybe I'm unique in this reasoning, maybe I'm not. But I do know that when I wake up and my arthritis or allergies aren't bothering me, I feel like I did three years ago and my whole outlook on life (for at least that day) changes. Age is a physical and emotional thing for me. The actual years don't matter to me except in a legal sense.

Which might explain why I have more friends that are older than me than younger, and why I have always preferred to date men older than myself.

Eh, I'm rambling. Must eat lunch now...
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 30th, 2002 01:45 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: This is what he pays me for

Wow, I certainly did not intend to cause you grief with my comments!

As one who is teased because I tend to skew toward the older end of my friends, I joke about age a lot. Believe me, I don’t believe that 40 is old. In the past my general rule was that my parents could not be old creating a wonderfully moving standard of age that my sister, parents or even myself could never reach. : )

As for Ms. Manson, my comments were based on her appearance at an in-store at the Tower Records I used to work at in ‘98 and at the concert on Saturday. I felt that, although she is not old by my traditional standard, she was looking old. Otherwise it would have been unremarkable.

Grace Slick’s comment that “she does not want to see 40 year olds on a rock and roll stage, even if that 40 year old is me” I thought was short sighted at the time I heard it. However, it does raise some interesting questions about rebellion, youth and age. Honestly, I did not really think about it till I got to see the juxtaposition of Lisa Loeb (34), Shirley Manson (36) and Bonnie Raitt (52).

Trish is right: age is little more than a number, but there are real physiological effects of age like a slower rate of cellular division. Does this affect one’s ability to perform in front of an audience? No, it doesn’t (being up too early and being too far away might, but I liked the performance and thought she coped with the distance well, she was the only performer I saw come down to the audience like that, but I missed Midnight Oil and the second half of Bonnie Raitt).

I am rambling, and work has interrupted my train of thought so many times, I need to stop. I hope you are not terribly insulted or hurt, I really meant nothing against you. : )

komos From: komos Date: April 30th, 2002 02:27 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: This is what he pays me for

No worries... you didn't cause any real grief. Honestly, I was just trying to puzzle through how it was that I had such a different experience than you. Granted, I didn't stay for Bonnie Raitt's performance and so missed the juxtaposition you observed. Still, Shirley Manson's age never once struck me in the course of her performance or afterwards.

I don't disagree with you over your ideas about youth and rebellion, but I do think its possible to grow with one's art and still have it remain relevant and timely. Admittedly, some do it more gacefully than others. While it remains to be seen whether Garbage will successfully adapt in this way, I do think it's a little too early to start questioning whether they're too old to be doing what they're doing.

I mean, heck, Shirley's a mere 2 months older than Björk (and she's one that you don't want to touch.) ;)
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